Hraba Hospitality Consulting

Another Class Action Lawsuit for Yelp!

Enjoy the TechCrunch article… and always, always, always enjoy the commentary.  I find it interesting if not hilarious.  If it isn’t hilarious enough for you, check out the comment section of this blog post, where it basically proves Facebook users are clueless (or 4chan had a blast acting like a mischievous army, once again).

Yelp seems to be taking this situation seriously though; umm….enough to post a Craigslist ad for legal counsel.  I would imagine there are better ways to hire lawyers than CL, but hey, just says a lot about the management that got them into this mess.

But these cries of extortion… once again… are more about bad management than out and out unethical behaviour.  There is no way these suits will be able to prove the “WE WILL DELETE A REVIEW FOR YOU” concept, because I don’t think it has ever happened; if it has, I doubt anyone has gotten a record of it as fact.  Someone would have proof by now… a recorded call, etc.  Admittedly, these guys at Yelp are from Paypal, and they know not to be sending privy or damaging info across email, etc…. but I still doubt something like that is going on.  It’s more likely confusion on the level of businesses not getting what is happening with the algorithm, as well as the dubious (but not out and out unethical) “move the best review to the top” program, that seems to confuse a lot of people.  This is more about business owner’s lack of understanding about social media, and Yelp’s apparent incapacity to clarify just how their algorithm works.

Using the algorithm as an excuse is not a wise move – blaming the foundation of their business opens them up to scrutiny.  By blaming the process of your sorting model, there will be more curiosity as to how it works.  Until people can trust that algorithm without question, their entire model will be extremely unstable.  Regardless of proprietary, privileged information, it jeopardizes their ability to be viable and dealt with as ethical business people.  Of course, the bungled Google deal and whatever really happened there (it’s all speculation) might offer a small window into their world.  Theories abound that Yelp was lying to Google, leaking information, and fabricating higher offers from unnamed suitors.  Yelp walking on this deal doesn’t make as much sense as Google calling their bluff, but logic doesn’t always figure into business dealings.  All in all… Google knows how to negotiate, and they were “rattled” by Yelp’s lack of transparency…. seemingly a theme for Yelp.

All they need to do is be open about their algorithm, and it will bolster and gel their business model.  I am sure there would be growing pains with being that open, but it would pave the way to have a stronger, vetted business that actually has trust from other people.  Until then, their algorithm nonsense will be the blood in the water that keeps the sharks (lawyers & lawsuits) coming back…

As the solution to their issues seem obvious, it starts to beg the question whether Yelp really has something to hide.  Without being conspiratorial, it isn’t that much of a logical leap that they are concerned about *something* – whether there are significant flaws in the algorithm, or they have work arounds that allow you to disregard specific aspects of it.  Frankly I don’t like conspiracy theories; people are typically not intelligent enough to orchestrate massive lies involving endless people that agree to keep secrets without being morally challenged.  Our government can’t, big businesses can’t…. why should a web 2.0 startup be able to get this far?  If moralistic heart strings being tugged isn’t enough, money talks… and one of the employees would have blown the whistle for their future book deal and fame, at this point.

However, if they ever get caught jockeying reviews under the guise of their algorithmic mistakes, Yelp will be *decimated*…. but I can’t imagine that ever happening.  What might happen is that serious flaws in the algorithm get noted, and short term it will seriously hurt them.  Depending on how they handle this fictional problem, it won’t likely be a Yelp killer.  However, watching Toyota deal with public fallout, it never ceases to amaze me how business’ often choose to ignore history and good sense.  What’s more, Yelp is a leader in flipping the marketing model and giving consumers a voice, taking a business’ ability to control damage with PR and spin.  Yelp is acting exactly like the companies that they are helping expose… you can’t be secretive, you can’t market your mistakes away…. if any business should understand this, it’s Yelp.  If you aren’t ethical, or don’t operate with the best of intentions… the public has ways of exposing that.  It’s humorous, and possibly ironic, that Yelp is caught in a trap of their own making.

I love seeing unethical people getting brought down, but I just don’t see this as mitigated behavior so much as foolish bungling, something I touched on before in this article.

People who don’t understand what Yelp is offering endlessly cry about the review site’s shifty ways… but Yelp’s program for advertising isn’t that nebulous.  The $300, $500, $1000 plans get you “impressions”…. those lightly highlighted/colored ads at the top of searches on yelp.  You also get a “slideshow” style picture gallery which is pretty meaningless, and you get to pick your favorite review to automatically appear at the top.  It says, “this is the company’s favorite review” and it’s fairly obvious when people are sponsors.  Most of the worthwhile aspects of managing the business owners accounts on yelp have nothing to do with their advertising options, by the way.  It is a valuable tool and can help you listen, learn and grow…. but you don’t need to pay yelp for any real reason.  For most businesses I doubt it makes sense at all; I don’t get it for a flower shop or bakery, etc…. there is no return on investment, so those constant calls they must be getting are annoying, to be sure.  But I still don’t think there is some devious plot going on…. I have spoken to at least 5 different account managers in different markets who try to get me to advertise, and none have pulled any unethical behavior beyond being ENDLESSLY annoying.

I still prefer google adwords, but if you are already doing those it might not be a bad idea, depending on your business.  Think about it from a hotel’s perspective – If I choose to pay $1000 a month from our marketing budget (which has moved online from print media), that means I get something like 4800 impressions (aka a banner ad that a consumer may or may not see due to “banner blindness”… I mean, I don’t see those ads at all, frankly).  If our average daily rate is $500, that means I literally have to pluck one person for two nights out of the 4800 impressions to cover the cost of advertising with yelp.  It actually is sort of a slam dunk, in that sense.

I just can’t convince old school marketers who are scared of losing the message, and not controlling the brand, due to sites like this.  What’s more, Yelp is only successful in SF Bay and a couple other markets.. barely.  Boston, LA, Chicago, NY seem to be okay… but even social media savvy Portland and Seattle aren’t that strong a market at all.

Look at open table reviews vs. yelp reviews in other markets…. opentable reviews which are verified and confirmed from a reservation are much more common than yelp reviews outside of the SF market.  One of our fine dining restaurants in the Portland area has 2 reviews on yelp, and over 200 on open table.  That speaks volumes.

But in the end…. it’s all bad press, and it douses their equity every time this happens.  I can’t help but wonder why they allow this to continue unabated?

Social media is supposed to be about transparency and Yelp is failing at that…. massively.  Everyone thinks Yelp is some immutable, immovable behemoth, but people moved from Myspace to Facebook in less than a couple months.  Youtube is less than 5 years old, and Facebook is less than 3 1/2 years old..  Yelp needs to recognize that their high horse isn’t that high.  The basic upshot is that this is all very young.  I think it’s interesting tho… all of it… which is why I am rambling here to all of you.  This will all be sorted out within a couple years, I am sure.

Do you guys think this is more about confusion from the companies themselves, or do you really think yelp is committing some expertly maintained conspiracy?  What are your thoughts on the future of online reviewing?

An impressive LEED Platinum for a hotel, Napa’s Bardessono.  I would like to take the time to point out that the incredibly complex reuse project from the NPS and ECB/Fort Baker Retreat Group, Cavallo Point, was just awarded LEED Gold.  Being NPS land, historic buildings, and completely “green” presented an  interesting array of problems (aka opportunities), and I am happy to say 2 years after opening it’s doors, it has finally received it’s status.  It is a shining light for the Bay Area, a stunning addition to the National Parks and GGNRA, and a model for future development being ethical and about sustainability.  I applaud both these properties, especially knowing how complex the LEED process can be!

Sign of the times – Ritz Lake Las Vegas to close 2nd May.  The economy may be leveling off it’s slide, but foreclosures lurk everywhere.

Gulliver points out a fairly brilliant honors scheme hatched by Intercontinental Hotel Group over Hilton’s disastrous alteration of honor awards points.

This is sort of scary, but nothing new to our industry:  Hotel industry needs flexible graduates.  “Skeleton staffs don’t bode well for hospitality students preparing to enter the market today. As if the long hours and weekends shifts in the hospitality industry weren’t unattractive enough, students entering the job world in today’s economy are forced to be more flexible than ever, often taking jobs outside of their geographical preference and much lower on the corporate ladder than they had hoped.”  Honestly – if I had known the hours I was going to work prior to starting my career in hospitality, I don’t know if I could have done it.  Of all the things I have dealt with in my life, the hours as manager at every property were dehumanizing and exacerbating.  Looking back, I don’t know how I did it for over a decade.  But that is what our industry is… high pressure, fast paced, grueling grinds, and the self delusion that it is as important as saving lives and that it will all be better tomorrow – oh, and that “lateral promotion” you took to get out of the department you are currently pigeonholed in… was totally worth it. (a little cynical humor, of course – not at all from my career.  Riiiiiiiiiiight).

Why do hotels have so much trouble answering emails? This is an epic, well timed, post.  It’s a HUGE problem, and not enough companies have corporate policies.  It becomes a disaster for communication if people think they can reach you, but have zero real access to you.  It makes our industry look bad, and it has to stop.  On the up side…. if you make it a priority to reply to emails, and it becomes everyone’s priority, maybe they will slow down with better communication.  More phone calls, less emails (including those horrible passive ones hiding the real question of “why haven’t you answered my emails?) – but that might just be wishful thinking.

Interesting and thoughtful piece on being a cautious, calculating restaurateur & entrepreneur in these times.  Fact is, it pays off big in a lot of situations.

Hotels converting F&B space into meeting space. A lot of hotels are looking for revenue, and this was an actual conversation we had with a client in the last couple weeks…. nice to see the article agreeing with us.  Lounges and comfy spots don’t generate revenue – but meeting space does.

Here are some interesting thoughts on Luxury Lifestyle and Travel Trends for 2010

Is Social Media the next Search Engine?  Some people think it is, just as we find out Facebook directs more online users than Google.

Augmented Reality is buzzed about for a reason… and not just because it is PHENOMENALLY AWESOME.  But it may actually create business, even for small businesses.

Is geolocating the future of hotel marketing?  I love that hyperbole, I really do… but let’s just leave it at “a really important, impacting development” before waving the white flag at all other types of marketing.  I actually think it is… for one, there’s FourSquare.  But I don’t like getting *too* carried away. =)

Foursquare does have some strategic growth;  First Zagat, then Chicago.  Some pretty big stuff happening, and it makes me excited that with all this activity, and other industry people cloning their format in multiple ways, Foursquare seems aware and fluid enough with a solid enough business acumen, to withstand the turbulence in this crowded arena.  They seem smart, and I think you need to keep an eye on them.  If you haven’t gotten a google alert from them about someone “checking in” to your hotel or business, trust me… you will.

The future of marketing in hotels? This is a tech guy with idealistic notions of what hospitality *COULD* do – with money, foresight, more labor, and planning.  It’s a good idea, some luxury brands might try to get there with this as a gimmick, to start….. but interesting and enthusiastic read nonetheless.  Beyond that, I liked the idea… and don’t mind plugging him.  He has got to be one of the only people out there that I know building Iphone (and I assume Android as well) apps that has even the most rudimentary understanding of the hotel business.  A lot of people are yapping about apps in our industry…. we might not be able to afford one, but for those that moved enough of your 2009 marketing budget online, and have a bit to spare…. check him out.

An interesting blog about the development of social media in the Kenyan hotel industry, and can possibly be extrapolated to other small inns and boutique properties that don’t have the monster marketing budget, but know there is an audience to reach.

The UK heats up about online hotel reviews, looking for some sort of validation process for Tripadvisor.  Is this another aspect of GPS & Geolocation that could help curtail fraud and shill reviewing?  Whatever the case, I think the industry can handle itself…. it’s in their best interests.  Getting the government involved to regulate seems a bit much.  The only winner when you start legal proceedings are the lawyers.  Very few other people actually win besides them.

Speaking of Tripadvisor… here are a couple best practices for a top ranking.

Social media as customer service for hotels.  Thank you for not saying social media as a way “to sell” or “drive revenue”.  Social Media may have a valid ROI, but this is more about being a cost of operations than a revenue stream.  We can all drive revenue with it…. but it is simply more important to *ENGAGE*.  Because in the end, ignoring it will cost you.

Here’s an odd piece – great thoughts… horrible grammar.  I didn’t understand this, so I include it to see if you have any thoughts?

That’s it!  Just thoughts and links and interesting stuff!  A real post is coming soon, I promise!

A USA Today reporter had asked the question… what do you do when you have a complaint on property about a barking dog.

Oh boy do I remember this… and it is a delicate matter because people typically complain about this when they are trying to relax. So your approach to the situation matters greatly… it is always professionally wise to be a bit obseqious when you have issues that our out of your hands. But how to handle it? Well my thoughts are below.

Why are my thoughts below? Because I let this blog run to tech and social media far too often, when my 15 years is operational rooms and F&B know how! Frankly, I didn’t grind out 16 hour days at hotels just to be known as “that twitter guy”. =)

So enjoy a bout of SOP conjecture… and let me know what your thoughts or procedures are about this!

1) It is important not to wait for a problem to occur… on the website, at check in, in the room (as long as you don’t have billboard blindness with 100’s of tent cards throughout the room) and ESPECIALLY at check in = you need to equate dogs with children. You never, ever leave a dog alone in a room. It is a foreign area with no familiar smells… and it is tantamount to abandoning your dog. Nervous dogs, or ones with separation anxiety will start chewing things, urinating, etc. If you have an emergency, or need to get away for a private dinner, the dog should go in it’s “den”, aka the vehicle that it knows and understands that the owners will come back to. As long as it’s safe, and the weather temperate…. a dog left alone in the owners car is much safer, sanguine, and relaxing to a pup, rather than a foreign room. So a proactive approach is imperative.

2) When the dog is in the room, and the barking has started: a) like any guest complaint, whether right or wrong, real or imagined – you take accountability & ownership to best of your capacity, see what options are available like finding the dog owner’s phone number on their folio (a practice that is a vital part of check in). If all else fails, do whatever it takes to move the offended guest away from the area… and room move them to the other side of the property.

3) Sometimes, room moves are not possible. What’s more, it is vital that you do not go into a room where a nervous dog is already scared… I have had housekeepers bitten, and dogs run out of rooms. It is a tremendous problem for labor and consistency. What’s more, sometimes the smallest dogs can be the most destructive or aggressive. Size means nothing in regards to this, so it is imperative you do not go into a room with a lone dog. In this respect it is vital to engage the guest’s empathy. Help them to realize, with the utmost of deferential accountability, that this is a problem guest more than an issue with hotel service. You are doing your best to deal with the situation as you would a belligerent drunk or a loud wedding party. Most guests will understand this predicament, and instead of being antagonistic will professionally defer to the hotel’s capacity to make things right.

4) How do we make things right when the going gets rough and all avenues of resolution have been spent?

Free Breakfast! Discount on the room! Coupon to come back and visit when there are no dogs here! The free breakfast is mindless, simple solution… but sometimes seems lazy. Discounts hurt, which is why I like to do gift certificates because about 15% (approx) of those guests actually use them, but it pacifies them at the time of the issue.

So there ya go! A little hospitable support and advice from a guy who hasn’t worked on property in a couple years. Thanks for getting me to think operationally!

Okay so I am really frustrated.  Well… that’s dramatic.  I am more confused, and too busy to gesticulate in the air and ask this question to the windows and fluttering leaves outside my office…. what in the hell is the point of Facebook for a hotel brand anyway??  I think a lot of people are using the Pareto Principle to organize their time in “doing” social media, as suggested earlier last week *here*.  I was going to try and find all the examples I have run into in the last year, but instead offer into evidence exhibit “B” – that time management is a very impacting conversation mentioned over and over because we are so dang busy and REALLY want to figure out what is important, and what isn’t.  So what’s important about Facebook?  Frankly, I am starting to lose my enthusiasm, especially since the stream change I reference right *HERE*.

Whether “Hotel Pages on Facebook” work isn’t a cut and dry question to say the least…. whether they are useful, or whether they are actually hotels to begin with is where we can start.  For example, if you search “Hotel” on Facebook, then filter so that only “pages” appear, the first 3 pages of over 500 results does have a hotel or two, but the majority of pages are for a band, or a page devoted to hating said band, or one of 15+ (I stopped count around 13) of Facebook Pages for the wonderful, if not somewhat antiquated, “HOTEL” board game.  Sure I enjoyed the game too, as you fair readers are just reminded of how much fun it was when you last played.

But this is no longer kid’s play.  This is business… and I want to make sure we are not wasting our time.

Two Important Questions, the latter being more impacting: “WHAT HOTELS ARE USING THEIR FACEBOOK PAGES THE BEST???”… and then the *really* important question….”THOSE HOTELS USING THEIR PAGES THE BEST… *what* *is* *the* *benefit*?”

Basically.. I would love to hear the positive, happy Facebook stories about hotels with groups or pages?  I am at a loss for any real examples of how it is “business”, or can be used effectively.  Like… none.  I know we have to be on FB… there has to be a presence.  But what am I missing guys?  I note this has come up recently, like *HERE*… but there hasn’t been much follow up.

I see people on hotel pages saying “I love your brand/hotel”.  I have also seen people upload a picture here or there.  But I *do not* see anything deeply meaningful or anything really happening (IE commerce, business, or jumps to booking engines, etc).  I know that the restaurants and especially lounges seem to like to use it as a place to update events, etc…. but most of the fans on a page would be previous guests, presumably not locals?  I have always thought hotels should ingratiate itself to the community, but there are only so many events and specials that you can target the community with, as they aren’t going to always be your strongest base or the people the pay the bills.  For brand image you need them happy, but they aren’t your guests.  What’s more, if you do constantly focus on locals… you are missing out on the bread and butter, which is rooms.  It is complex… is the page for a local clientele, for potential guests, for past guests that are part of your culture?  All 3? It’s almost like Hotels focus on the locals not because they *want* to.. but becuase, by default, they *have* to… as they don’t know how to reach others.

I for one haven’t the foggiest how you would get a potential guest to your facebook page, and what’s much, *MUCH* more important… is why?  Why would I want to get a guest to a page without much information, meaningful content, or a booking engine?  Isn’t the potential guest someone we want to end up on our hotel site?  Even the SEO premise is interesting, but if people aren’t searching or using FB to find brands, what’s the point of getting them to your page when they can’t do anything?  What’s more, if a FB page is basically a one sided twitter or RSS feed of brand info, wouldn’t you want your potential guest on your branded site instead of a dead-end of non-interactivity?

So what is the page for?  For now I have a couple things:  brand awareness (news, etc), SEO (your link on FB), contact info, (but FB’ers aren’t using pages as a yellow page, nor are they using it as a resource), events, specials.   Let’s look at some hotels and how they successfully use FB:

Hotel Costes – 25,000 fans, zero wall posts, obviously just a “front” or online billboard.  I think this may be the most effective use of a FB page out there.  Just build a nice page, and walk away.  I hate to be cynical, but it might be the simple best page I have seen, albeit a little tongue in cheek.  I will say that “Hotel Costes” is also famous in the younger scene for having downtempo lounge DJ’s playing, and have an associated line of CDs which may be part of its popularity.  Whatever the case, one of the hotel pages with the most fans, and they aren’t doing anything at all.

Hilton – 21,107 fans, with 8 posts on the wall in the last 14 days.  Those posts are the typical “Hilton is the best,i love it”…  meaning relatively benign, fairly non engaged commentary.  They aren’t posting anything, not even RSS.  I have seen some hotels pull back from posting, as the change FB made has wall posts injecting into people’s conversational stream like spam.  Hoteliers are confused how to handle this, and even I have found brand updates annoying as all get out (and I am the type that is meant to be tolerant of them, being my profession and all).

Hotel Aladdin – I love this example, because they are actually interacting with their 10,000+ fans.  You may not speak Spanish, but you can tell they are updating the wall, and people are actually participating.  So what is this meaningful interaction from a hotel doing a good job with their page?  People thumbs up, IE “Like This”, by clicking on the feed post and that’s about it.  Comments are frequent, but I still don’t see business.  People liking you doesn’t necessarily translate into “time well spent”.  They did have a contest where they gave away 3 rooms, which is a great way to garner attentions and fans… but does it make a booking down the road?

St. Julien – Obviously using the page, as they moderated a question I asked about their page.  They had a Earth Day special that got some attention, and some fans.  However… they got fans on the pretense of planting trees.  People joined, they announced 70 trees in those new fans honor.  But what now?  That first post since the event is about 20% off in the spa.  They have 216 fans right now.  Any wagers on whether the amount of fans goes up or down in the immediate future?  I *assume* new fans will tire of spa ads in their stream and de-fan pretty quick.  Whatever the case, are they spending time that generates business or justifies time spent?  Exactly *who* fans pages right now?  Who fanned St. Julien for that promo – people that wanted a tree planted, or people that wanted to know about the hotel?

HotelChatter mentions some more hotels that have pages, and that are potentially doing interesting things:

Whist at Viceroy Santa Monica with 125 fans is basically sending a dinner offer once a week, and nothing more.

High Peaks Resort, frankly, seems to do everything right when it comes to social media.  As much as their stream looks solid, with 300+ fans, I still wonder what sort of commerce or interaction happens…

The Jane, with 52 fans, hasn’t really posted anything *since* the hotel chatter article.  This isn’t indicative of them doing anything wrong, I simply think it is indicative of no one really knowing how to create meaninful conversation on FB.

I could keep coming up with more pages, but these are simply a couple hotels whose pages have already been chatted about in the social media conversation.  I notice most people aren’t doing anything, when they do it is usually a contest to garner more fans (to what end I am not sure anyone knows) or a special on wine at dinner , etc.  All this just lends itself to a couple points:

1) Social Media is about conversation, which is something I see on very few pages.  On FB, it is basically a one way pushing of information.. deals, news articles etc.  If FB had reviews that could be fused into a page, or some “game” like Hyatt developing one of those “what’s your travel personality” quizzes, it might create better interaction… but very few have the time, money, or justification to do anything like that.

2) Social Media is open, which FB is not – meaning that most of the time, on Flickr or Twitter you can actually have a chance of interacting with potential clients, while FB only has those that already know of your property, IE locals looking for a good deal on wine at dinner.  How many people is that for?  What percentage of fans will be local, and will actually utilize that deal?  Who is your target on FB?  Why is that your target?  What are you attempting to achieve with FB?

In the end -I think that question sort of zinged even myself… “What are you attempting to achieve with FB?”

I for one don’t have a clue.  I just know, even worst case scenario, it’s great to have your link out there in a place with a high page rank.  So that is why I am there, even though why I started was totally different… it was to regale guests, interact with them, create stories and remember moments…. but now, I feel relegated to checking it once in awhile, staring blankly, and then moving on.

I think a lot of hotels set up a page, have absolutely *ZERO* idea how to meaningfully interact with potential guests, and resort to offering locals dinner deals in their restaurant, because there isn’t really a way to reach a prospective client on FB (and don’t get me started on their advertising program… because we know that doesn’t work.  No conversion tracking, Lack of results, users not seeking advertising, and the Social Media Ad Model is broken anyway).  You can only reach people that know about you, and that can act on offers, deals, and last minute specials.  These aren’t clients that provide a powerful revenue stream to your hotel, and often, as we have seen with dropping rates to garner occupancy… the people looking for a deal aren’t really the clients you want anyway.

Are we wasting our time?

I did find some other great pages on FB about hotels….Hotel Rwanda, Hotel for Dogs.. and I am reminded people are passive.  They want to watch a trailer, or be told about a brand or product… but consumers on FB don’t necessarily want to interact with the brand yet… nor are many looking to become a vocal endorser and push your hotel page to their friends and network.  Basically, it is just something to click… and a page is something to ignore until it annoys you and you de-fan.  What’s more, you can’t tell consumers about your product if you aren’t able to reach them within the closed network.  It reminds me of Mashable’s comments that “Facebook needs to convince users to SEEK advertising.

Very complex stuff.

Cure my cynicism.  Tell me why I am missing the point, the bus, and target?  How has a FB Page saved your hotel brand, and made things better for you?  I want to hear stories now because I am quickly feeling like a page is nothing more than the 80% not actually causing any real impact.  Time to cull, and focus on the effective 20%…..

Is FB part of that 20% that gives you 80% of results?  Let me know!  Otherwise… I might be encouraging clients to build the page, and simply move on.

Share your experiences and thoughts!

Here are some of the links I previously spoke about in regards to social media sites not being profitable.  I note, when people find that these sites are not profitable, I am often met with surprise in lieu of all the buzz and media about them.  Buzz does not profit make.

YOU READER!  You yourself may not have thought of it – but facebook, youtube, yelp, tripadvisor, linkedin, twitter…. none of these powerful sites have proven the social media ad-model, nor been able to turn a profit.  I am not sure if I published these links already, but they are good for thought.  It is sort of ripped out of a previous yelp conversation, found (yes unfortunately on yelp) HERE.  It is a good thread about yelp.  I am not going to elucidate, but we might all agree that Fishbits X is one of the most thougthful, prolific yelpers out there (tongue firmly in cheek).  The below tracks some of the conversation about monetization and creating web 2.0 to actually be profitable, which it is not.

Cheers!

Kelleher from Wired.. his thoughts earlier last year:
http://www.wired.com/t…

A CNN / Fortune article about Facebook’s Number 2 being “the one” who can make it profitable:
http://money.cnn.com/2…

while facebook has money problems:
http://www.techcrunch….
“facebook headed for financial ruin?
http://www.marketingpi…

a good dollars and sense vs pageviews cut up of the issue:
http://okdork.com/2008…

And I think the AOL Yahoo thing brought out some interesting comments… especially from Randy Falco
http://gigaom.com/2008…

“But despite drawing large, engaged audiences, other social networks have not been able to make the experiences relevant to users and marketers alike.”

Yelpers don’t want complexity.  They just want lovely free parties where they can be happy.  Nothing wrong with that, frankly.  Sounds good.  Actually.. really, really good.

But happiness does not sustain itself all the time… those parties may be no more if something doesn’t happen… and fairly fast.  I did just notice a new feature called “Things I Love” on the yelp profile main page.  This is worked in so as to create highly targeted advertising for the members.  If they like dogs, they can market dog food.  If they like their fiance, they can market wedding vendors.  It is a brilliant idea, but I already chatted about how Facebook’s model doesn’t work.  Even running a couple tests produced some negligible and even odd results.

So, when JP Morgan suggests that 2009 will be the year that the ad model fails…. my ears perk up and I wonder a couple things.  Namely, will there be unexpected opportunities if they are not able to get ROI or make these things profitable?

This is fascinating, and social media is so big right now… ballooning, saturating, and a media darling which has gotten an almost cult of personality like focus in the news.

I cannot imagine that they will make it profitable, nor can I imagine it going away.

What do you think is going to happen?  I think that a lot of these sites don’t have strong business leadership, and there is a lot of panicking going on right now.  As long as they focus on the business more than the parties….

I think we will live to review another day.

This is more of an attempt to get conversation started about tripadvisor.

I think it is obvious to respond and interact with guests on yelp. In fact, I think it is a valuable tool. Beyond dealing with unhappy clients, managing that as well as learning from them… you are allowed to connect with endorsers of your brand… thrilled clients that will help you spread the news about your message.

It is fantastic.

But I am still confused about tripadvisor, and how one might proceed most efficaciously. If I am completely mistaken, I will find out by being helped/schooled/*learned* in this public setting….

If I am not mistaken, instead of a direct correspondence with your previous guest you are actually just posting a public response. It seems dangerous, and could be useful, but feels more like a double edged sword.

I am sure I am missing something, but I would love other people’s thoughts on how to handle your hotel brand within tripadvisor as opposed to something like Yelp.

post here, or simply email me at michael@hrabaconsulting.com